Darren Criss Fan Community

This is a fan forum to discuss Darren Criss\'s career and his public activities, including his theater, film, and TV projects, his music and musical performances, charitable work, interaction with fans, and interviews.

You are not connected. Please login or register

The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 11 ... 19, 20, 21 ... 23 ... 27  Next

Go down  Message [Page 20 of 27]

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Critics' Reviews of "The Assassination of Gianni Versace:  American Crime Story"


From acsversace-news:


This critic has an extremely sharp tongue.  I hesitated posting the article, because of his tone and sharp criticisms (note:  he believes this show glorifies a killer, which I know is not the intent of the show, and is not what Darren believes is conveyed).   But I'm posting the article here, because of his praise of Darren's acting.
The Times-UK wrote:
Fashioning of a killer

March 4, 2018

Despite its title, the show is more about the assassin than the assassinated. Cunanan (played with convincing shiftiness by Darren Criss) had already slain four men before he set his gunsights on Versace. He was on the FBI’s most-wanted list — but a spree killer merely bumping off gay people was evidently a low priority for law enforcement.

[. . .]

Stealing the show: Darren Criss dazzles as the villain in The Assassination of Gianni Versace

[. . .]

The Assassination of Gianni Versace is at its best when it steers clear of the fashion set altogether. The stories of the men Cunanan killed before Versace are told in standalone episodes, offering sharp insight into the complexities of gay life in the 1990s — an era when tolerance of “alternative lifestyles” was preached more often than practised.

Cunanan was a product of social repression and a parasite who fed off it. Ashamed of his sexuality, he preyed on the shame of other gay men. His primary targets for blackmail were older guys, preferably with wives, families and lots to lose. Versace’s name is the VIP tag that helped get this series made, but these quieter, less celebrated tragedies are at its heart. . .

Source:  https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fashioning-of-a-killer-39zs9cqjm







Dead Good Books-UK wrote:
The Assassination of Gianni Versace episode 1 review

March 2, 2018

Cunahan is played here by Darren Criss, a mostly theatre actor who you may or may not remember as Blaine Anderson in Glee. And, just one episode in, it’s fair to say already that Criss is outstanding in the role. Equally as impressive is the man behind Cunahan’s victim, Zero Dark Thirty and Che actor, Édgar Ramírez. The likeness between Ramírez and Versace is nothing short of incredible. Seriously. It’s actually quite unnerving at times.

The principal cast is filled out by two slightly more famous names. Penélope Cruz nails the accent as Versace’s sister Donatella and Ricky Martin nails the tight white tennis shorts as Versace’s live-in boyfriend, Antonio D’Amico.


Source:  https://www.deadgoodbooks.co.uk/assassination-of-gianni-versace-episode-1-review/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral








About Episode 6 (warning:  spoilers!).  This article does not mention Darren's performance, but is an analysis of Andrew Cunanan.  I don't agree that humanizing Andrew Cunanan is amoral.  It's a reality that there are complex reasons why and how a child developed into an adult like Andrew.  People want black and white answers, the bad guys versus the good guys.  But it's often gray.  Good people have their faults, even sometimes their vices.  People who have committed awful, inhumane acts, still may possess some goodness, especially when they were younger.  
The Film Experience wrote:
ACS: Gianni Versace: "Descent"

March 3, 2018

Jeff comes to Andrew’s party, with real feelings of friendship and gratitude that Andrew brushes away in lieu of putting on a charade for David. . . Everyone around him needs to be part of his games in order for them to work.

[. . .]

. . .Andrew goes to visit his mother.

This is his real mother, not the thousand different women he has invented to strangers at parties. And we confirm what has been always strongly suggested but never confirmed until now. Andrew came from nothing. He had very humble beginnings, and wishing for more is something practically ingrained in the family emblem. “I am unhappy” he mutters to his mother, a cry for help that does deeply unheard. No one is going to help him anymore.

“Descent” was good in illuminating some aspects of Andrew’s character that has been hinted at before, but never expressly addressed; mainly the fabrications that he tells others (and, as it turns out, himself) in order to keep going. The further we go back into the narrative, the more human the characterization of Andrew is becoming, which is a weirdly amoral line to walk when depicting someone that killed five people.
Source:  http://thefilmexperience.net/blog/2018/3/3/acs-gianni-versace-descent.html








From dcriss-archive:



She is an author and columnist (Attitude Magazine and Glamour Magazine-UK).












Robert Levin is editor in chief for am New York (had worked with The Atlantic, Reject Nation).   Yashar Ali works with New York Magazine and Huffington Post.  Marci Liroff is a casting director, producer and acting coach.   Chao Li is a product manager and formerly worked with Vox Media.  Pete Price is a broadcaster and journalist.  That bottom pic of Darren with Mr. Price is so cute--he looks so young there. 













-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
From Darren Criss Army:


Spoilers!  From Episode 6 (this is what Norman's friend said about Andrew Cunanan).  Hmmmm.  I don't remember that plant being in that exact spot. :amused

@ACSFX “Too lazy to work, too proud to be kept.” #ACSVersace

via Darren Criss Army










From dcriss-archive


Spoilers (episode 6)!

americancrimestoryfx: Andrew Cunanan cannot be contained. #ACSVersace









Source








From acsversace-news



Spoilers Episode 5!  Another very touching episode.

The Assassination of Gianni Versace | Season 2 Ep. 5: It Was His Life Scene | FX
He risked his life. Watch this SELECTED SCENE from the fifth episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace. | 5 March 2018









I can't repost this pic, but go here to see Darren, Edgar and Ricky dressed for the Oscars parties: 
https://acsversace-news.tumblr.com/post/171575433814/source







-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Critics' Reviews of "The Assassination of Gianni Versace:  American Crime Story"





From dcriss-archive:



Her wrote:
4 reasons to watch American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace

And, more than a month after it began in North America, the series kicked off this week on the BBC Two.



Darren Criss

While the show may be about Gianni Versace in name, the bulk of the season ends up following Criss’ Andrew Cunanan, focusing on everything from early life to his previous murderers - including how he managed to dodge the authorities for months.

And the Glee star definitely delivers.

n a performance that is equal parts American Psycho and American Horror Story, the 31-year-old manages to show how Cunanan faked his way through life, spinning some fairly impressive lies about his past, while still hinting at the loneliness underneath the facade.
Please visit the site to give the article a numbe of "clicks."  Source:  https://www.her.ie/entertainment/4-reasons-to-watch-american-crime-story-the-assassination-of-gianni-versace-391241









The Times-UK wrote:
TV review: American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace; Civilisations; 100 Years Younger in 21 Days; Strike

March 4, 2018

Criss, a former star of — joy — Glee, moves effortlessly from lost little rich boy to “predatory escort”. He describes looks from fashion shows with the same intensity as Patrick “American Psycho” Bateman talking music. He has the otterish sheen of a lifestyle criminal.
Source:  https://www.thetimes.co.uk/magazine/culture/tv-review-american-crime-story-the-assassination-of-gianni-versace-civilisations-100-years-younger-in-21-days-strike-6n7757qb8










This is probably the last awards show Darren Criss is going to be watching on television for a while. His portrayal of serial killer Andrew Cunanan on FX’s “The Assassination of Gianni Versace” has him poised for an Emmy run this summer. Criss and Mia Swier (left) recently got engaged. | Source

Source:  https://www.thewrap.com/oscars-2018-parties-winners-frances-mcdormand-jordan-peele-kobe-bryant-celebrate-photos/









From acsversace-news:



Amherst Collective wrote:
The Assassination of Gianni Versace

Mar. 5, 2018

The follow-up season to FX’s smash hit mini drama, The People v. O.J. Simpson, Versace packs the same nail biting drama and deception into a gorgeous pastel palette. The cinematography in Versace is unparalleled, with all the excess and color that one might expect from the story of the death of one of the biggest fashion designers in the world. Set in nineties Miami, some scenes make the sunlit beach feel like its spilling out into your living room.

[ . . .]

. . . As the plot thickens, Versace’s hyper realistic but simultaneously dream-like quality is what sets it apart from similar crime dramas.

[ . . . ]

While Versace is the draw owing to his fame, Crisss Cunanan is the centerpiece of the story; the pathetically insecure sociopath steals every scene he’s in. Criss slips into his character’s idiosyncrasies like a hand in glove, and each of his compulsive lies and sneaky tactics reveals the creeping sense of how depraved Cunanan must have been in life. Criss’s brilliant performance illuminates how the desire for opulence and excess can drive people to do unspeakable things.

[. . . ]

In a review of the television show written for Vogue, entitled “Miami Vice,” John Powers says “Murphy uses Versace’s murder to conjure the shadowy, bottled-up world of late-nineties America, in which Gianni and Antonio weren’t treated as a genuine couple (they couldn’t marry), respectably closeted husbands had furtive liaisons with young men, and law enforcement was so unsettled by ‘gay’ crimes, they botched the cases.”
Please visit the site to give the article a numbe of "clicks."  Source:   https://amherstcollective.org/the-assassination-of-gianni-versace-90d8ec0b1876
 








Regarding those interested in whether Judith Light qualifies to be considered for an Emmy nomination.

Source

*Chris Beachum is a Gold Derby editor who has contacts with industry insiders, but take with a grain of salt nonetheless




-






_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
From Darren Criss Army:



@ACSFX Who is he trying to be? #ACSVersace

via Darren Criss Army









americancrimestoryfx: Andrew has his head in the clouds, but he’s far from being a star.

via Darren Criss Army


-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Critics' Reviews of "The Assassination of Gianni Versace:  American Crime Story"






From dcriss-archive:





Marie Claire wrote:
‘We’re not trying to commodify pain’ The Assassination Of Gianni Versace star Darren Criss on his dark new role

Mar. 6, 2018

At various points (according to the hundreds of people who met him), Cunanan was an obsessive boyfriend, a pathological liar, a party animal, a wannabe celebrity and an unfeeling killer – a slippery mix that Criss masters with considerable skill.

‘The story is less about exposing what happened so much as trying to explain how emotionally one person can get from point A to point B,’ says Criss, who personally doesn’t buy the idea of Cunanan as a born monster.

‘You look at some of the more famous serial killers in the United States and they were people who had sociopathic tendencies when they were younger. Later in life people say, “Oh well, I saw that coming”, whereas Andrew [is] much harder to pin down. He was a fun-loving person, he was gifted. He seemed to have a lot of promise.’  

[ . . . ]

Criss acknowledges the difficulties of dramatising something that hurt so many people. ‘The destruction that Andrew wrought on people’s lives is still very much felt 20 years later. To reawaken that… I imagine most of those folks probably have no desire to tune into our show, and for obvious reasons I perfectly understand that, but yeah, that sort of weighs on me a little bit. I think of the families and I hope [they know] what we’re doing is not trying to commodify their pain.’

. . . Criss is an energetic, affable guy with the sing-song voice of someone who spent his teens as a stage-school kid. He apologises a few times for talking too quickly, but his enthusiasm is infectious. His first brush with fame came in his early twenties when footage of A Very Potter Musical – a spoof stage show conceived by Criss as a University of Michigan student – went viral on YouTube.

Later, he won a part on Glee as series regular Blaine Anderson. The show’s set was fraught with rumoured rifts and dramas, but Criss insists diplomatically that coming into it later than the original cast put him at a useful distance.

‘I had a really fortunate relationship with that show because I joined after it was a massive hit. I kind of came in with a bird’s eye view,’ he adds. ‘There’s all kinds of drama that happened that I was aware of but was never part of… I tended to be the last to know.’

A few years later, when Glee creator Murphy mooted his idea for a new American Crime Story while the two were having a catch-up lunch in New Orleans, . . .

‘I’m aware I’m having a moment right now,’ he says, with the tone of someone who has seen enough shut doors not to look a gift horse in the mouth. Acting is a profession of extremes and Criss says he’s experienced ‘both sides of the coin’, so at the age of 31 is happy to acknowledge a peak. It’s a good year for other reasons too, as Criss became engaged to his long-term girlfriend Mia Swier in January.


Please visit the site to give the article a number of "clicks."  Source:  http://amp.timeinc.net/marieclaire/entertainment/darren-criss-andrew-cunanan-versace-583144?source=dam&__twitter_impression=true









Gay Times wrote:
Here’s why you must watch the new series of American Crime Story: Versace

March 6, 2018


Following the success of Ryan Murphy’s critically acclaimed The People v. O.J Simpson, the second instalment of the crime anthology revolves around the assassination of fashion designer, Gianni Versace.

The series debuted in the US on FX back in January, and finally arrived on BBC Two in the UK last week.

But while murderous pursuits of serial killer Andrew Cunanan is the focus of the series, the show deals with a whole lot more than a tragic killing spree in 1997.

Here’s four reasons why you need to watch The Assassination of Gianni Versace.

1. Darren Criss plays a sociopath

. . . Darren Criss’ portrayal of Andrew Cunanan, the serial killer who shot Gianni Versace, is disturbingly captivating.

It’s unfathomable as to how somebody can create a character boasting irresistible charm and intelligence, and juxtapose it with such insincerity and brutality, which makes it hard to watch and even harder not to.

He’s as compelling as a sociopath as he is a choir boy – which will make your moral compass spin all over the place.

[. . . ]

4. The critique of homophobia in 90s Americana

The Assassination of Gianni Versace might not be what you expect.

Amongst the Versace runway, Miami beaches, and Darren Criss well-fitted underwear, the miniseries cleverly explores the consequences of being gay in the 90s. Because beyond the glitz and glam lies the not-so-pretty reality.

Homophobia affects most of the characters in the series. Andrew Cunanan struggles to come to grips with his sexuality and targets in-the-closet homosexuals. Each one of his murders, which are poorly chased up by the police, are acts of internalised homophobia.


Source:  http://www.gaytimes.co.uk/culture/100701/watch-new-series-american-crime-story-the-assassination-of-gianni-versace/







-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
I'll return tomorrow to give my thoughts.  :happy face



From dcriss-archive:


  Track: "Ascent" with Darren Criss
                                                                          Artist: Still Watching: Versace


acsversace-news:
“Ascent” with Darren Criss
Covering the seventh episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story | 7 March 2018

via dcriss-archive










This article is very interesting.  Darren reveals scenes that were cut.  I would have loved to see that extra scene with Cunanan and David Madson.
Vanity Fair wrote:
Darren Criss on the Vulnerability, Lesbian Subplot, and Skeet Ulrich Role Cut from American Crime Story

March 7, 2018


Fans watching American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versacewill have noticed that the episode running times tend to fluctuate in length. This week’s episode, “Ascent,” clocked in at around 77 minutes with commercial breaks. Next week’s installment will be even longer. But in a wide-ranging interview with Richard Lawson on Vanity Fair’s weekly podcast Still Watching: Versace, series star Darren Criss reveals that, as is often the case, the first cut of each episode was initially much, much longer and entire subplots and characters wound up on the cutting-room floor. “I’d be curious to see the director’s cut because a lot of episodes ended up at 90, 100 minutes,” Criss explained. Whether or not viewers will ever see a director’s cut of the series, Criss shared a few of the gems audiences might be missing.

[To read more of the article, go here:]
FULL ARTICLE | VANITY FAIR
Source:  https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/03/american-crime-story-darren-criss-podcast-skeet-ulrich-lesbian-subplot-still-watching-versace












American Crime Story 2x08 Promo “Creator/Destroyer” (HD) Season 2 Episode 8 Promo | Source





-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
My thoughts on Episode 7:

Spoiler:

--I was very amused to see Cunanan working in the drug store, not because there is anything wrong with working at a drug store, but because he always looked like he was pouting and bored--he is so spoiled.  The funniest scene was when he was in his drugstore boss's (Mr. Mercado's) office and his boss lectured Andrew by saying something to the effect, "I didn't get all of this by being idle." Then Andrew slowly, methodically looks around at the small, modest, bare room and says "yes, Mr. Mercado" and walks out with body language that expresses exasperation. Darren's comic timing is spot on.

--we see that Andrew is struggling financially, now that his father has left, leaving Andrew to care for his mother, who seems clinging, emotionally dependent and fearful of being alone. When Andrew throws down the ice cream, we view how spoiled he is (he claims he needs only the best ice cream, which apparently is an ice cream masquerading to be something it really is not).  We see his bad temper, which foreshadows violence to come from him later

--we also see Gianni Versace's temper, due to his frustration with being seriously ill.  I like Ricky Martin's acting when Antonio stood up to Gianni, with Antonio saying he is not afraid of Gianni, and demanding  Gianni apologize to Donatella.  You always see poor Antonio standing on the fringes of the scenes with Donatella and Gianni (Antonio does not sit with them)--indicating how Antonio feels like an outsider (because of Donatella).  But we do not see Donatella attacking Antonio, and we see Antonio standing up for her.

--it was interesting how neat was Andrew's bedroom, in contrast to the mess and litter around his room in his San Diego apartment at a later time (after he left Norman), when he is shooting drugs.  Also--instead of pictures of  Gianni Versace taped on the wall, Andrew has photos of places to visit.  Even with his own troubles, Andrew is much better off emotionally as we go backward in time, compared to later years.

--it is touching how Gianni works trying to prepare Donatella to be his legacy.  And it is touching to see Donatella rise to the challenge and take the reins of leadership when she announces to the Versace house that her brother wil be recuperating in Miami, and that he will be back, but in the mean time, they must be bold.

--We again see parallels, with both Donatella and Andrew struggling to gain their footing, due to their personal losses.  Donatella loses temporarily the brilliant leadership of her artist brother, and Andrew loses his father in some way.  But Donatella has the love and support of her brother, and is determined to dive in and work hard to continue the Versace house of fashion, the Versace product.  Andrew does not have the support of any family member and his plan, in contrast with Donatella's plan, is to manipulate older wealthy men with his charm, intelligence and sex.  Andrew craves status, to be in a social position where others are below him.  He doesn't value achieving productivity from his hard work to achieve his own career goals.

--The scene with the woman at the escort service was really interesting, with that snotty woman inspecting Andrew like a piece of meat, followed by her turning him down because of being Asian-American.  So we hear from this woman that gay men have their own prejudices against other gay men who are Asian-American.

--We also see Andrew and Jeff Trail discuss how Andrew doesn't like to get a "no" from other gay men.  Being rejected by others to Andrew, makes him feel like he doesn't exist.  Are other gay men rejecting him because he doesn't look as preppy as he could, or because he is Filipino?

--We see Andrew researching wealthy older men who attend charitable events.  Norman seems like a very dignified person. The Gallo character is so suspicious of Cunanan, and provides some amusing barbs thrown at Andrew.

--I'm totally caught me by surprise when Lincoln was beaten to death by the closeted young man.   It was interesting to see the shoe on the other foot, with Andrew being threatened with possible violence.  Andrew manages to remain clear-headed, and he urges the killer to run.  Later, Andrew and Norman talk about how if one is gay, if you are ill, it's your fault.  If you are gay and murdered, it's your fault.  This is something that Andrew tucks away in his mind, with the audience aware that Andrew will use this sad commentary on institutionalized homophobia to his advantage in the future, with his own victims

--We see the first time Andrew and David Madson meet, where Andrew woos David with Andrew's extravagance.  The story David told about his female friend who was sad and bullied, who David tried to show his support by promising to build a home for them, a safe place, was sweet.  We see once again how kind is David Madson.  And I was really touched when David continued with his story, about how his friend rejected him when she learned he was gay.  Once again, I'm enjoying Cody Fern's acting.  I really liked the understated way David told the sad ending to the story about his friendship with his friend.  He told it in such a quietly straightforward way, not overly dramatic, not self-pitying, but it was heartbreaking.  I also really enjoy Darren's acting in this scene, where he is very attentive to David telling this story, at first his face showing how sweet he thought the story was, but later how his face turned so sad when David tells how his friendship with this girl ended.  David sweetly, generously stated he hoped she got the home that she wanted (even though she rejected his friendship after discovering David was gay).  Andrew looked as if he was going to cry.  Why?  Was it because of how David was denied this safe place with someone he loved because of David being gay?   Was it because it reminded Andrew how he was also denied a safe place, a real home, with his own family, because he was gay, or for other reasons? 

--We see the beginnings of Andrew's violent side when he throws his mother against the wall in frustration with her spoiling his plan.  When his mother lies to the treating doctor about how she broke her shoulder blade, Andrew cried.  Was it relief from not being arrested?  Was it real remorse?  I interpreted remorse, but I don't think we saw another scene in this episode between Andrew and his mother following the scene in the doctor's office, so it's hard to tell.

--Norman seems like a decent man, a man with real dignity.  We know from a previous episode he had lost his beloved long-term partner due to AIDS, when Andrew targeted him.  It's quite a feat that Andrew managed to convince Norman through Andrew's charm, to move from Arizona to San Diego into a giant house.  I wonder if this part is true.  It's interesting how Andrew sees other people's expression of real emotion as merely tools available to be used by Andrew for him to achieve his goals.  Andrew tells a variation of David's sad, sincere story about his friendship with a girl, and manages to convince Norman that he could be happy sharing a home with Andrew.







From Darren Criss Army:



americancrimestoryfx His world looks different from the top. Don’t miss a new episode of #ACSVersace TONIGHT at 10p on FX.











The Assassination of Gianni Versace | Season 2 Ep. 8: Creator / Destroyer Preview | FX
A young Andrew Cunanan struggles with his oppressive father as a young Gianni Versace becomes a designer.
(Source: youtube.com)









From dcriss-archive:


Scenes from Episode 8, directed by Matt Bomer:
Spoiler:










acsversace-news:
Stills of Darren Criss and Jon Jon Briones in episode 8 of The Assassination of Gianni Versace | 8 March 2018








This is so funny.











A quote from that "Still Watching Versace" podcast of Vanity Fair.  I listened to part  of it, and will finish up when I have more time.  I heard this part that was quoted.  I was surprised when he said this.  So I'm not sure, to clarify, is Darren saying he does not consider himself to be Asian-American?  I have such mixed feelings from what he said.  It seems to me (just my humble opinion) that he is letting others' perception of him to define who he is (in this context, others who do not know of his racial/ethnic/cultural background, see him as a white dude because he passes as white, and Darren accepts this assessment from others)--as opposed to Darren defining who he is, in terms of his own intimate knowledge of his racial/ethnic heritage and his cultural heritage.  I wonder if he has talked at length with his brother, or his mom, about this issue.   I don't know, does it come down to identification externally, versus personal identification of oneself, your right to define who you are, regardless of the perception of others?   Interesting questions. 
theatrevicki:
“I don’t think so. But I think that interest in the question, and the pause that it gave me, kind of gave me the answer, which is no, in that I haven’t had to deal with the–To be honest, whatever obstacles those may present in the entertainment industry, a lot of people of color that are put into certain ‘boxes’ for better or for worse, that’s something that you really have to live with, and because I ‘pass’ for so many different things, and I look just like a plain old white dude–a Caucasian guy–it’s never really occurred to me. On paper, yeah, I guess I am, and yes, I grew up in a Filipino household, but I never really thought of it that way.”
— Darren Criss answering “do you consider yourself a person of color?” (x)






















































-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

dusty001


Intermediate Member II
Intermediate Member II
This has finally started in the UK and I've watched the first episode! DC is amazing in it! He's really intense and creepy. My God what a change from Blaine! Love how you can see his behaviour change from creepily staring at his male flatmate in bed to excitedly chatting about Versace. Very well done. Lots of little nuances in his behaviour. Like when he mimicks that woman's shocked face hearing about Versace's death and he puts his hand over his mouth to but he laughs. Oh and when he started laughing manically in the car after having killed him! Man, how crazy did he come across there!! I thought he was crying at first. Great stuff from Darren, he's really compelling to watch. So pleased he nailed it and if the first ep is any indication he deserves all the praise he is getting. Really hope he'll get some award nominations from this. The guy playing Versace was also very good, he looks the spitting image of him! Great casting. Liked Penelope too, though she didn't get much to do. Have to check out the second episode on iplayer now as I was away when it aired on tv. Chuffed for Darren! Hopefully this will get him more work.  :big grin

*Jeremy*

avatar
Advanced II
Advanced II
Spoiler:
Episode 7 is not one of the darkest episodes, despite the murder (when Lincoln got assaulted, I said to myself "oops, this is not a scene for Poppy") and the fact the killer awfully got away with it. There was even a bit of humor ("I'm Gallo, if anyone cares").

And you begin to "understand" Andrew. There is the frustation because he doesn't a good life, there is the quite dysfunctional mum, there is the desensitization to violence due to the murder and the reaction of the police. Btw, I don't think the girl has rejected David for a question of sexual orientation but because she's mad he won't keep his promise.

I'm not disturbed by the fact Darren said he doesn't consider himself as a person of color but I may understand why you didn't like to hear that. As you're an Asian, you probably like the fact Darren is Asian-American and, when he says he doesn't see himself as a person of color, it may feel like he isn't a person of color after all. But Darren is well Asian-American and likes it, as you see in that interview on a big talk show when he talks about half-Asian babies and some Filipino restaurant. 

Hello Dusty.

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Hi Dusty.  I'm glad you were impressed with Darren in the premiere.  Hope you enjoy Episode 2.  It's nice to see you.  :happy face


Hi Jeremy.  I respect your opinion Jeremy, and I respect Darren's right to identify as white.  Every individual has the right to identify himself or herself as he/she chooses.  This is a sensitive issue and I come from a background of being an activist in segments of the Asian-American community in northern Cal for a while.  I admit I may have what some may call a sensitivity, and what I call an awareness of certain issues relating to being Asian-American.  The original question posed was whether Darren considered himself a person of color.  Facing racial discrimination by others or how other people perceive or label you is an external factor that impacts how one identifies one's racial identity, but it is just one factor.  Connecting to your culture in a positive way, connecting to your own racial and ethnic heritage, is another aspect of how you choose to identify yourself.  Darren focuses on the societal obstacles, which are external, in saying he does not consider himself to be a person of color, not how he internally bonds and connects with his heritage. 

I understand what Darren was saying when he shared that since he passes as white, he has not faced obstacles in the entertainment industry that others who appear to be people of color, have faced.   I appreciate him saying this.  I agree that  persons who can pass as white will not face the obstacles that persons who appear to be of color will encounter, not just in the entertainment industry, but just in so many aspects of life.  The part that surprised me was when he said, "on paper," he is Filipino and yes, he happened to grow up in a Filipino household, but he never really thought of himself that way (as a person of color).   That choice of words, that "on paper"-- that technically--he is hapa, he is of mixed racial heritage, but that he never otherwise considered himself to be a person of color, rubbed me the wrong way. 

When I became a fan of Darren through Glee, I wasn't aware he was hapa.  It is not a requirement for me that in order to admire a celebrity, that he/she needs to be Asian, or part Asian, or a person of color.  I initially noticed him because of his talent, but the reason why I became a fan was because of his kindness, when I saw how he went out of his way to connect with his many fans, as well as devoting so much time to charitable causes.  If he never had mentioned his pride in being Filipino, I think I would not have assumed that he was proud of his Asian ancestry.   But over the years, he has stated on many occasions he is proud of being Filipino.  There was news media coverage on this.  I wasn't his fan primarily because he was proud of being part Filipino.  That he had expressed feeling proud of his Filipino ancestry several times in the past, was just an additional reason why I connected with Darren.   Coming from my personal perspective, it feels incongruous to me, to have said previously on several occasions that he is proud of his Filipino ancestry, but then now, say that being Filipino is only what is on paper, that it's not part of what he has ever considered himself (in terms of his identity), which is why he has never thought of himself as a person of color.   I know I'm  not doing myself any favors in the Darren fandom, by sharing honestly how I feel, and I can get that others, maybe most, may disagree with me, but that's my honest perspective.  And Darren is still a wonderful person, still a talented person, and a kind and giving person, as his taking part in the Operation Smile event this weekend is evidence of.   But it's just that one of the reasons why I felt a connection with Darren, based on what he has said before, about his Asian pride, I'm now learning that this particular reason for my connection with him, never really existed?  I am taken aback.


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Lin

avatar
Intermediate Member III
Intermediate Member III
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this, Poppy.
I personally wasn't surprised by what he said, I actually thought it was in line with things he had said before. I didn't get the impression that he was saying he doesn't consider himself Filipino (or only "on paper"), I thought that part was still referring to the original question of whether he considers himself a person of color, so I didn't see it as contradicting or negating what he has expressed many times before about being proud of his Filipino heritage.
You make an interesting point about letting others definine how he views his own identity, but I feel that's not really my place to comment on.

@Poppy wrote:It's quite a feat that Andrew managed to convince Norman through Andrew's charm, to move from Arizona to San Diego into a giant house.  I wonder if this part is true.
Yes, that part is true! And it was actually not just any giant house - according to Maureen Orth's Vanity Fair article, it was the house of the guy who got murdered in this episode. I was so surprised when I looked that up because I didn't remember that detail from reading about the case before.
I enjoy reading your detailed thoughts about the show. I keep meaning to write down some of my own, but somehow the weeks always go by so fast and the stuff I want to comment on just keeps piling up. I think I'll just wait for the last two episodes and then try to write a longer post about the whole season.

Darren just continues to impress.  applause I'm still enjoying all the praise he keeps getting, from the media and tons of random people on Twitter. I also saw on Twitter that a German comedian and late night host mentioned him on his podcast, so I just listened to that. He said Darren is fantastic and the fact that he is such a kind-faced beautiful man makes it disturbing to watch. Um, agreed. :happy face He also mentioned he's been YouTube-stalking Darren a bit and complimented his singing. I've never listened to that podcast before, but I watch his show occasionally, so it was weird to hear him talk about and praise Darren (he actually called him "Chris Darren", but shh, let's look past that).


_________________

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Hi Lin,

It's true that Darren has at different times referred to himself as a white dude, and at other times, talked about how his Filipino heritage is something he's proud of.  I've always found that confusing, but I agree, he has said both things. I've seen other fans be confused about this as well.  But I always just thought that he was speaking in generalities, since usually when he referred to himself as a white dude, he wasn't specifically talking about whether or not he was a person of color or whether he was part Filipino.

I agree that when Darren made the comment, "on paper, I guess I am, and yes, I grew up in a Filipino household, but I never really thought of it that way," that he was responding to the question of "Do you consider yourself a person of color?"   The thing is, though, if one is Filipino, or part Filipino, then having some Filipino heritage means you are partially of Asian ancestry, which means you are at least partially, a person of color.   So to me, it seems inconsistent, on the one hand, to identify as white, and on the other hand, say you are proud of being part Filipino (since being Filipino is recognized by most as one type of Asian ancestry, and being of Asian ancestry is recognized generally as one of the minority groups/groups that are recognized as being of color).

I understand that the issue of letting others define how one views one's identity may be something that you do not feel is your place to comment on.  I felt comfortable commenting on that issue, because Darren referred to it when he talked about obstacles that persons of color face in the entertainment industry, thus suggesting that unfortunately, there are others in the entertainment industry who will place obstacles to persons of color, and since he himself has not experienced that treatment from others, that this absence of having obstacles placed in his path by others in the entertainment industry was a reason that Darren used to illustrate why it never occurred to him that he was a person of color. 

I get that there is a difference of opinion on this.  I'm of course, speaking for myself.  So for me, I personally find it confusing to understand how one could simultaneously say that one is proud of one's Asian ancestry (in Darren's case, his Filipino ancestry) and also define oneself as white, since if one has an Asian ancestry or part of an Asian ancestry, then one is generally considered to be at least partially a person of color.   I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Darren as identifying as white at all.  That is his right to identify as white, just as it would be his right to identify as Asian, or to identify as mixed race (Asian and white/Irish).  And of course, I respect his right to identify as he chooses.  I'm just sharing how I was surprised by his statement, since he had made statements in the past that seemed to me to be inconsistent.

Thanks for the answer about the house that Norman and Andrew Cunanan moved into.  I would not want to live in a house that my dear friend was brutally murdered in.  It would make me so sad.  

I don't think my thoughts are much different from the reviews, and there are so many reviews.  I think I'll keep my comments shorter for that reason, since I'm a slow writer and typist.   I look forward to hearing your thoughts, but if you're busy, no worries.  We understand how life can keep us pretty busy.  :happy face

Yes, it's so nice to see Darren receive all this well-deserved praise.  I'm very proud of him, and so happy for him.  He's done a remarkable job on Versace.  Truly.  heart

Thank you for sharing what you heard on that German podcast.  So, was that podcast person saying he's seen Darren before he saw Darren as Andrew Cunanan in Versace and has thought Darren has a kind face, or was he saying that he saw Darren on YouTube afterward and thought Darren has a kind face, or was he saying that even as Andrew Cunanan, Darren's face as Andrew's face, at times may pass as kind (such as in Andrew's vulnerable moments, especially earlier in Andrew's life, such as when he and David Madson were together in the Mandarin Oriental hotel)?    Eek.  The name he called him. Neutral




From Darren Criss Army:



@FilAmCreative #FilipinoAmericans @JonJonBriones, @CarlinJames and @TheIsaBriones will be joining @DarrenCriss & the cast of @FXNetworks’ @ACSFX (THE ASSASSINATION OF GIANNI VERSACE: AMERICAN CRIME STORY) on a new episode this #Wednesday, #March14th at 10pm. Photos by @Sthanlee. #ACSVersace










Wow, 4.5 month labor of love.  I'm looking forward to seeing the episode.   I wonder if it's not unusual to spend that amount of time on an episode.  I'm guessing the episode is going run longer?

mattbomer Excited to announce my directorial debut next Wednesday, March 14th at 10 PM on @americancrimestoryfx This was a 4 and a half month labor of love that I worked my a#% off on. The cast and creative team of #acsversace are phenomenally talented, and I’m so grateful to @mrrpmurphy and the many incredible mentors who helped to make this a reality for me. I hope you can tune in to see! #acs #fxnetwork #versace #directorialdebut [camera emoji] by the brilliant Shelly Westerman







From acsversace-news:

This is nice, the increase of the Live + 3 ratings of Episode 6:

TV by the Numbers wrote:
‘Atlanta’ premiere more than doubles in cable Live +3 ratings for Feb. 26-March 4

March 9, 2018

Source:  http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/atlanta-premiere-more-than-doubles-in-cable-live-3-ratings-for-feb-26-march-4/






-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

*Jeremy*

avatar
Advanced II
Advanced II
In these times of heavy debates about discrimination, Darren may also be unconfortable with the idea of saying he's a person of color although he looks white and never had to deal with race problems. After the Bruce Jenner incident, he may be more cautious during talks about minority issues. Maybe he thought the best answer would be to recognize his "white privilege" and was afraid to get reactions like "you don't know what it's like to be a person of color".

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Hi Jeremy,

Yes, that's possible.  And I really do appreciate the first part of what he said, where he stated that because he passes as white, that he will not encounter the same obstacles that people of color will face in the entertainment industry.    I feel he's being respectful of the experiences that people of color face, that he's being respectful by recognizing that there will be unique obstacles and grief that people of color unfortunately, will have to live through, and overcome, that he--as a person who passes as white--fortunately will not. 

It was the choice of words/the phrasing of the later part of the quote that has surprised me, but I feel like I am just repeating myself, at this point. :happy face










From Darren Criss Army:


I'm not sure how much violence is in this video (I closed my eyes at one part).

The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story | Season 2: World Premiere | FX
Not a lot of new bits here but it’s a new compilation from FX.

(Source: youtube.com)











@ACSFX His best attributes brought out the worst in him. #ACSVersace @DarrenCriss

via Darren Criss Army









I'm really looking forward to this episode. 

@FilAmCreative #FilipinoAmericans @JonJonBriones, @CarlinJames and @TheIsaBriones will be joining @DarrenCriss & the cast of @FXNetworks’ @ACSFX (THE ASSASSINATION OF GIANNI VERSACE: AMERICAN CRIME STORY) on a new episode this #Wednesday, #March14th at 10pm. Photos by @Sthanlee. #ACSVersace









From dcriss-archive:

Mason Alexander Park.  :happy face

Via Mason Alexander Park’s Instagram Story (March 12, 2018)

via dcriss-archive










acsversace-news:
Antena 3 Spanish trailer for the premiere of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story | 11 March 2018








Pics of Episode 8:
Spoiler:


jonjonbriones: A sneak peak before this Wednesday’s episode of @americancrimestoryfx #AssassinationOfGianniVersace











From acsversace-news:



Yea!  Looking forward to seeing all the Filipino-American talent in this week's episode!  I need to remind my husband's Filipino co-worker to make sure she watches.

Source / Link to article










Source








Here is more from the article:
FilAm Creative wrote:
Jon Jon Briones, Carlin James, Isa Briones, Zedrick Restauro Join Darren Criss in FX’s ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story,’ March 14

March 12, 2018


Darin Criss, Jon Jon Briones, Carlin James and Isa Briones – Photos by Sthanlee B. Mirador


Filipino American actors Jon Jon Briones, Carlin James, Isa Briones and Zedrick Restauro join fellow FilAm Darren Criss in a new episode of FX’s The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story this Wednesday, March 14 at 10:00pm.

Jon Jon Briones (Miss Saigon) will play Andrew’s father, ‘Modesto Cunanan’ while Carlin James (How to Get Away with Murder, This Is Us, Dear White People) will play Andrew’s brother, ‘Christopher’ and Isa Briones (who was just announced today to play ‘Peggy Schuyler/Maria Reynolds’ in the first national tour of Hamilton) will play his sister, ‘Elena.’  They will also appear in next week’s episode on March 21.

[. . . ]

Filipinos seem to praise their own whenever anyone hits mainstream celebrity status, but they did not with Cunanan.  Many never spoke his name at the office water cooler gossip while others watched the televised manhunt, in secret.  It’s as if we all felt a great disturbance…

When it was announced that the Andrew Cunanan story will be the 2018 series focus for American Crime Story, I was hesitant to even promote it. But, it was until a colleague friend mentioned to me that the show “tells struggles of a Fil-Am family seldom seen on TV.”

She’s right.

Cunanan developed a reputation as a prolific liar given to telling fantastic tales about his family and personal life.  He was also adept at changing his appearance according to what he felt was most attractive at a given moment.  When he was 19, his father deserted his family to avoid arrest for embezzlement. That same year, his mother learned that Cunanan was gay.  During an ensuing argument, he threw her against a wall, dislocating her shoulder.  Later examination of his behavior from reports indicate that he may have suffered from antisocial personality disorder, a personality disorder characterized by an abnormal lack of empathy (earlier known as psychopathy).
Please visit the site to give the article a number of "clicks."  Source:  https://filamcreative.wordpress.com/2018/03/12/jon-jon-briones-carlin-james-isa-briones-zedrick-restauro-join-darren-criss-in-fxs-the-assassination-of-gianni-versace-american-crime-story-march-14/










Spoiler:

I've been wondering about Cunanan's siblings.

edouardholdener: The young Cunanans. (On ACS this Wednesday!) #acs#americancrimestory #fx










memoryrec: My little actor on set and soon behind the camera! So proud to celebrate today his admission to @lachsa_official in Cinematic Art!








This is such an interesting issue.  Representation matters.   Even if the Cunanan family was not healthy, I'm still very happy to see a mixed-Filipino-American family being represented on TV on a major show!   It may not seem like such a big deal to some, but for those communities who see very little representation on TV and film, it is deeply appreciated.  heart 
 
carlinjames917: Just a reminder for anyone who cares. There’s legit gonna be the story of a “dysfunctional”, mixed-Filipino-American family told on TV!   wha? This NEVER happens!! It still blows my mind, and I’m so grateful I get to be a small part of it. #RepresentationMatters
-
#ACSVersace #FX #ACS #Grateful#Blessed #Booked #Actor #Versace#RyanMurphy #FilAm #Filipino #Italian#American #ActorLife #Postcard











This is cool, a pic of the call sheet with Darren at the top. 

gabyfresquez: That time I shared a call sheet with #RickyMartin …all my 90s dreams cometh true  #actorslife #americancrimestoryversace @americancrimestoryfx #livinlavida #menudo #latinsbelike #latinx




-



Last edited by Poppy on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
From Darren Criss Army:





Tom Rob Smith is an Executive Producer and lead writer for ACS Versace.

Source













Sthanlee B Mirador is a Fil-Am Hollywood Celebrity Photographer


Source








USA Today wrote:
Q&A: Matt Bomer on directing 'Versace,' 'Boys in the Band' and a 'White Collar' reunion

March 13, 2018



Actor Matt Bomer is central to Wednesday’s penultimate episode of FX’s The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story (10 ET/PT), but viewers won’t see him. He’s playing a new role: director.

Bomer (White Collar, The Normal Heart), 40, spoke to USA TODAY about his first-time gig directing the episode, “Creator/Destroyer,” which looks at designer Versace and his killer, Andrew Cunanan, as pre-teens; working with his mega-producer friend Ryan Murphy; and the chances for a revival of his USA hit, White Collar.

Question: How did this first-time directing assignment come about?

Bomer: I’d worked with Ryan several times. He knew I always would come into the set with reams of text work and research and he said, ‘You should direct.’ I thought it might be on American Horror Story, but he said Versace. I promptly passed out. When I came to, I said, 'Yes.’ This was a four-month labor of love for me. I read over 3,000 pages of books. I met with director friends to get insight. I did an intensive with the DGA (Directors Guild of America). I shadowed two other directors of the show. So by the time I got on set, I was at least able to fake it till I made it.

Q: How did you approach Cunanan in this episode, which portrays a future killer and a future fashion icon as youths?

Bomer: “We’re all responsible for the choices we make, but it was a big question of this episode: Can we empathize with a monster when we see the circumstances of his life and the hand he was dealt?  What makes one person a creator and one a killer?
Source:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/03/13/matt-bomer-talks-directing-versace-boys-band-white-collar-memories/412943002/










This appears to be a call sheet for ACS Versace FINALE airing next week in the U.S., Canada, and Latinoamerica.

gabyfresquez:   That time I shared a call sheet with #RickyMartin …all my 90s dreams cometh true #actorslife

Via Gabriela Fresquez’s Instagram











From dcriss-archive:



Pics for Episode 9
Spoiler:







acsversace-news:
Stills of Darren Criss in episode 9 of The Assassination of Gianni Versace | 13 March 2018










acsversace-news:
Director Matt Bomer, facing camera, talks to cast and crew, including actor Darren Criss, right, on the set of ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story.’ ( Source) | 13 March 2018









Episode 7 pic:











-




















_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
Tweets about Darren:



From dcriss-archive:





He is Morning show host @JUMPOttawa 106.9 FM.









She is a reporter and video journalist ( @NBCNews @HuffPost @VICE @latimes ).










She is a songwriter and singer.












He is a Writer/Director of Netflix's The Haunting of Hill House.










VDUB is a writer (Ebony Magazine, Essence).   Evette Dionne is Senior culture editor at Bitch Media.  Jada Gomez is Deputy Editor at Cassius Life.












Audrey Irvine is Senior Director of Coverage CNN.














He is an actor (How to Get Away with Murder).










Angelica Ross is founder of Trans Tech Social and an actor on Pose (FX).  :happy face











He is an Olympic figure skater.


-


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

dusty001


Intermediate Member II
Intermediate Member II
I have watched the second episode now and DC's general creepiness is a sight! The way he switches from charming to creepy is just so effortlessly done. He sure looks stunning in this though. I thought he was going to kill that old man with the duck tape. And his little dance!  :laughing

One thing that confuses me though is the timeline skipping all the time. Also, we had half of the first episode repeated in the second one, to show the timeline, which is clever and all that, but it also makes me think, "I've already seen all of this, why repeat it?"

Poppy, thanks for sharing your thoughts about the whole Hapa thing. It was interesting to read and well written. I'm sorry to hear that you felt that way, I know how much you love Darren. I don't really know what to say about the subject, but identity politics is a mind field these days so he probably wanted to avoid any accusations being thrown at him. Seriously, you can't say anything these days without someone getting offended. Now poor Bruno Mars is being accused of cultural appropriation towards black culture.  wha?


Oh and hi back Jeremy!  :hello

*Jeremy*

avatar
Advanced II
Advanced II
The "timeline skipping all the time" is actually one of my favourite things in ACS Versace :amused

But I understand it can be confusing.

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
From dcriss-archive:






I'm really glad to hear that Darren is still very proud of being half Filipino. :happy face :happy face :happy face



That Vulture article is fascinating.  So many topics are covered, discussions about his race identity, being a straight cisgender man playing gay and queer characters, how Andrew's ability to morph and change who he was may have been more accepted because in the 1990s, persons in the LGBTQ community felt they needed to lead secret lives. 

One thing is for certain is that Darren is very proud of being half-Filipino--that is still very true, which I am so glad to hear.   heart

The way I'm interpreting what Darren said in this Vulture interview, is that he thinks it'll be unfair to be enjoying the benefits of identifying himself as Asian-American in certain circumstances, such as college applications where a college supports affirmative-action, when he hasn't felt that he has encountered the hardships someone who looks Asian-American has had to deal with.  I can understand where he is coming from, and I think he is motivated by doing the right thing, the fair thing. :love

It's also interesting that this seems to be the first time he's really thought of this issue, because he asks the interviewer what the interviewer thinks, "For better or for worse, I guess not [he guesses he does not identify as Asian-American]. But I guess I am. What do you think? Am I? On paper I guess I kind of am."   Darren uses the phrase that has troubled me when I first read it in connection with the "Still Watching Versace" podcast: "On paper" [he is Asian-American].  But this time, he has given context for that phrase, because as I said, he has mentioned the phrase in the context of college applications, where affirmative-action is an issue for people of color in underrepresented groups, and since he does not feel he has experienced the obstacles that persons of color would encounter, he does not feel it would be fair to identify himself as Asian-American in this context.  The interviewer goes on to state, "I think it’s [his race-identity is] however you want to define it, but I do think that phenotype probably plays a large role in how you relate to that identity," which Darren agrees that if he looked more Asian, he would identify more that way. 

I personally feel that yes, looking a certain way, looking like a person of color, does play a large role in whether or not you identify as a person of color.  And there are also issues like what Darren has stated, how others will treat you in life--placing obstacles to those who look like a person of color, and the absence of these particular obstacles for those who pass as white, as well as whether just generally people treat you as white or as a person of color based on their perceptions and assumptions of what they think you look like and what box they want to put you in. 

But race-identity also involves how you internally bond with one's cultural, ethnic, and racial heritage, in other words, not how other people identify and treat you based on their own perceptions, but how you identify yourself based on your own feelings of closeness or lack of closeness with your racial/ethnic/cultural heritage.   I'm getting much too wordy and verbose.
 

Ok, jumping off my soapbox now!  Sorry! :apology


Jeremy wrote:
In these times of heavy debates about discrimination, Darren may also be unconfortable with the idea of saying he's a person of color although he looks white and never had to deal with race problems. After the Bruce Jenner incident, he may be more cautious during talks about minority issues. Maybe he thought the best answer would be to recognize his "white privilege" and was afraid to get reactions like "you don't know what it's like to be a person of color".

Dusty wrote:identity politics is a mind field these days so he probably wanted to avoid any accusations being thrown at him.


So both of you turn out to be correct!  :happy face


And I'm so very, very glad I feel like I understand where Darren is coming from.  I get the feeling--and I could be wrong--but I think he's still processing this issue.  But very importantly, to me, I feel like he's coming from a place of genuinely wanting to do what's right and fair, and that context makes all the difference in the world to me.  heart heart heart



dusty wrote:Seriously, you can't say anything these days without someone getting offended. Now poor Bruno Mars is being accused of cultural appropriation towards black culture. 

Yes, there is a lot of pressure to be politically correct now days, but I welcome minority opinions.  I feel it is extremely important to hear the views of those who are in the minority, because sometimes the opinions of the majority need to be challenged and have been accepted for too long.  I'm not following the controversy with Bruno Mars, so I'm not going to speak about that specific issue.  Of course, I support dialogue of differing opinions stated in a civil debate, and social media is not known as a medium that encourages civility.   I'm guessing the Bruno Mars controversy is taking place mostly via social media.



I'm glad you are enjoying the show, dusty!  I had a feeling you would.  I agree, I admire Darren's ability to switch from charming to creepy at the drop of a dime.  (Just wait until you see some later episodes . . . !  You'll see Darren's acting expressing so many different states:  Horrifying, charming, creepy, sad, frighteningly intense, vulnerable, unhinged/deluded, lost, violent.)


So far, I'm not enjoying the reverse chronology structure, but I'll wait until I see the finale to see if I still feel the same. But I can understand that you really enjoy it, Jeremy.


Saw Episode 8 tonight.  It was well done!  It's getting late.  I'll be back tomorrow.  :happy face






-



Last edited by Poppy on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Poppy

avatar
Administrator
Administrator
-



I was surprised to hear that there were diverse reactions on twitter today about Darren's tweet,  because as I said earlier this morning (see above post), I thought his Vulture article cleared up a lot of things for me in a very positive way. Most of the tweets that commented on his tweet or the Vulture interview were warm and accepting and appreciative, but a few were confused or offended.  

I think that choice of words matter when talking about the sensitive topic of racial identity.  As I said, I felt much better after reading the Vulture article, but I can see that there are a few times when his choice of words in the article may have offended or confused some people, and the same about what he said in his tweet. 

I'm not pretending I'm an expert on Asian-American identity or Asian-American issues, but I can give my own take on words or phrases he may want to avoid when discussing his racial identity.   For example, there was a discussion in this forum about something he said in the "Still Watching Versace" podcast, Darren's use of the phrase, "on paper" [he is a person of color].  Again, regarding my perspective, I think a phrase like "on paper" (I'm Asian-American), or "on paper" (I'm a person of color), minimizes or diminishes the importance of Darren's Filipino ancestry, because "on paper" suggests it's merely a technicality that he has some Filipino blood.  Fortunately, the Vulture article gave context to Darren's use of the phrase, but if taken out of context, that phrase can offend people.

When I read that Vulture article, as I said, it was a very broad interview, covering so many topics, and Darren seemed to be a bit tired (which is understandable, in that he probably is doing multiple interviews a day to promote Versace), so that he seemed a bit more rambly than usual.   That he sometimes is not very direct or specific in his answers to the questions, and that his answers were very long, combined with the appearance that he's just beginning to think about the issue of racial identity as it pertains to his own mixed racial heritage (which means he may not be as familiar with racial identity issues as some may assume he is), results in Darren treading on thin ice, on tricky territory, by discussing a controversial and touchy topic (racial identity of people who are of mixed race, as well as Asian pride).

Vulture wrote:
Darren Criss on Playing Serial Killer Andrew Cunanan in ACS: Versace and Passing As White

March 14, 2018

By E. Alex Jung

Is this the first time you’ve played a half-Filipino character?

Yeah, it is, and the harsh truth is like, when else would that be a specific character? And that’s not a bad thing or a good thing. Somebody was talking about Asian-American representation, and he’s like, “I don’t see a lot of stuff for Filipinos specifically,” and I went, “I guess not, but I guess I don’t think about it.” I have the luxury of being half-white and looking more Caucasian, so it doesn’t weigh on my conscience as much, like, “Ugh, why aren’t there more roles?” I think as an actor, you just study and you wanna bring your A game all the time and hopefully it doesn’t even matter.

But a great story about Jon Jon Briones [who plays Andrew’s father on the show]. Ryan Murphy, everybody was blown away by Jon Jon, and Ryan asked me, “How come I’ve never heard of him? How come he doesn’t get cast in stuff?” . . . He’s like, “Well, I don’t get why I still haven’t heard of him.” I’m like, “He’s a Filipino man, dude.” There’s only so many opportunities that people can lock themselves into accepting when they’re casting shit, unless he’s playing the Thai terrorist on CSI or something. And what I hope happens is this will be a great stepping stone for him, for people to go, “Ah, he’s a good actor,” and then just cast where race isn’t a thing. But it’s a weird and unfortunate thing that you have to wait for an opportunity like this one. . .

[. . .  ]

Has it played a part in casting for you at all?

No. No. I’ve been really happy and really thrilled. I always say one of my favorite things about myself is that I’m half-Filipino but I don’t look like it. It’s always like an ace up my sleeve of like, “Oh really? How nuts.” So it never really has. I just look like a Caucasian guy, which is nice. I’ve got the multiethnic thing going on. People think I’m like Italian or Mediterranean. No, my mom’s very Filipino. I grew up with a Filipino mom. Anybody who’s grown up in that world knows that’s a thing you share.
Source:  http://www.vulture.com/2018/03/darren-criss-american-crime-story-versace-and-race.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1



Maybe the simpler, most straightforward answer to the first question would be:  Instead of saying you don't notice the lack of roles for those in the Asian-American community because you pass as white--just agree that there are a lack of opportunities for Asian-Americans being represented in TV and film (and in theater).  Also note that the question merely asked if this was the first time Darren ever played a half-Filipino character.  He simply could have said, "Yes."  Darren could abbreviate his answers and answer only what is asked. 

I really liked his comments immediately after that, where he does indicate after all, that he is aware of the lack of roles for Asian-American actors, and that Jon Jon Briones may have had limited type of roles offered to him because of racial stereotypes.

Then in response to another question, what he next said is the quote that @Vulture used in their tweet ("I always say one of my favorite things about myself is that I'm half-Filipino but I don't look like it").   Some people will interpret his words to mean he is happy he looks white, even though he has some Filipino heritage (which I know is not what he meant).  It was good he clarified in his tweet, that "just to clarify- 1 of my favorite things about myself is that I'm half Filipino.  PERIOD."  Yes, that was perfectly said, in direct, unambiguous language.  Then in his tweet, he uses that metaphor of his Filipino heritage being an ace up his sleeve, which is sort of awkward to explain.  I'm guessing that he saying that revealing to people who assume he is white, that in fact he also is part Filipino will lead to him winning the hand (continuing Darren's card game metaphor), that the revelation will benefit him somehow.  But the concept of using his Filipino heritage to benefit himself seems contrary to what he said earlier about Jon Jon Briones, a Filipino actor having limited opportunities because of racial stereotypes about Asians (and it also is contrary to what he said later in the interview about obstacles that people who look Asian have to face, which he will not have to deal with because he can pass as white). This sentence in particular could offend people, when taken out of context, "I just look like a Caucasian guy, which is nice."  

Vulture wrote:Did it ever in your life?

No. I suppose I’m very lucky because any people of color, it’s a thing. It’s a thing that is your best asset, and when it doesn’t work, is your greatest enemy. And it’s tough, yeah.

I wouldn't say being a person of color is your greatest enemy.  Being a person of color is not the problem.  The problems are people in society who discriminate by limiting opportunities of others based on their race.


Vulture wrote:Do you identify as Asian-American?

No. I think that’d be unfair. I think that’d sound like I’m reaching for the minority card on a college application. I think that would be unfair. Yeah, my mom’s Asian-American. She’s from the Philippines and came here and then married a white guy, and here I am. But maybe it’s because of the way I look. Maybe if I looked a little more pan-Asian and I was put in that box then I would be like, “Yeah, I identify as Asian-American,” but maybe because the obstacles that may come up haven’t that I don’t think about it. But that’s a really interesting question. I’ve never thought about that. For better or for worse, I guess not. But I guess I am. What do you think? Am I? On paper I guess I kind of am.

I talked about this part earlier this morning in the above post.  Just one thing:  I would not use the phrase, "minority card," because many people would feel offended by this phrase.  But this is the part in the article that I really was grateful for clarifying Darren's motivations for identifying as white.  Darren thinks it'll be unfair to be enjoying the benefits of identifying himself as Asian-American in certain circumstances, such as college applications where a college supports affirmative-action for those in underrepresented groups, when he hasn't felt that he has encountered the hardships that someone who looks Asian-American has had to deal with.  Even though I am still confused how one could express pride in being part Filipino, and at the same time, identify as white, I feel like I understand where Darren is coming from, that he was motivated by doing what he felt is fair and what he felt is right.  This has made a big difference to me.

I also mentioned that it's also interesting that this seems to be the first time he's really thought of this issue, because he asks the interviewer what the interviewer thinks, "For better or for worse, I guess not [he guesses he does not identify as Asian-American]. But I guess I am. What do you think? Am I? On paper I guess I kind of am."


Vulture wrote:I think it’s however you want to define it, but I do think that phenotype probably plays a large role in how you relate to that identity.

Yeah. I think if it was thrust upon me I would embrace it, because I love that I’m half-Filipino. But I’ve never been put in that corner, like, “We need an Asian-looking guy. Call this guy.” That’s never been a journey that I’ve had to navigate. Anyway, back to the show.

Just to repeat what I said earlier: I personally feel that yes, looking a certain way, looking like a person of color, does play a large role in whether or not you identify as a person of color.  How others treat you depending on how you look, how they label you based on whether you look like a person of color or pass as white, is an external factor that affects how you racially identify yourself.  But race-identity also involves how you internally bond with one's cultural, ethnic, and racial heritage, in other words, not how other people identify and treat you based on their own perceptions, but how you identify yourself based on your own feelings of closeness or lack of closeness with your racial/ethnic/cultural heritage. So in other words, even if you do not look Filipino, you still may identify as Asian-American because of your bond with the Filipino culture and heritage, regardless if other people assume you are white and put you in that box because of your appearance.  The bottom line is that it is Darren's right to choose how to identify himself racially.

I apologize for this long statement.  I wasn't intending to break things down to this detail, but after I saw the various responses on twitter, I thought I would share my interpretation of, and response to, some of what Darren said in his tweet and the Vulture article, and make some suggestions of ways for Darren to reframe his responses to questions about racial identity. 

-



Last edited by Poppy on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:11 pm; edited 2 times in total


_________________

Photo Credit: narmdaddy

Back to top  Message [Page 20 of 27]

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 11 ... 19, 20, 21 ... 23 ... 27  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum